The Rules
Friday, July 23, 2010 at 7:00AM Those of you over the age of twenty-two have likely heard of a series of books titled The Rules, by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider.
This week, I got into a conversation with a friend of mine about when you're dating... who pays for dinner? One of The Rules is that women need to let men pay for dinner - that it's the only way to "get them to commit". As we all know, The Rules are fraught with stereotypes and unsavory manipulative techniques, but there are kernels of truth in there, too.
My friend told me that, for her, she has always felt that her dates should pay for dinner, at all times, no matter how long they've been dating. She said that she spends plenty of money on nails, hair, cute clothes, etc, and that it's a respect thing. She just got married, so now, of course, it's a moot point! I thought that was interesting, because though she and I have very similar personalities (super-independent, well-educated, etc), I totally feel differently. I definitely believe, at the beginning, that the guy should be paying for things. I take his insistence to pay as a signal of how much he wants to date me. If he lets me pitch in for dinner on a first, second, or third date... he loses significant points. It tells me he doesn't really care all that much about impressing me. However, once we've been dating for a few months, I definitely start pitching in. I'd say I spend about an equal amount as my date. I think it's in part to say "I can take care of myself - I CHOOSE to be with you." A lot of meaning in such a small gesture! In some ways, I'm definitely a dating traditionalist - in other ways, I guess I veer a bit left.
What about you? Are you a wallet-opener or do you keep your wallet locked tight?
Love and Relationships
Reader Comments (13)
I'm very similar to you. In the beginning, I like for the guy to pay. If a guy expects me to pay for dinner on our first couple of dates, I see that a big faux pas. It's probably a bit of an old-school perspective, but I want to feel wooed and pursued-- insisting on paying for dinner is part of that. But once a relationship is established, things equalize. It just seems unfair to keep making the guy pay! My husband and I dated for almost five years before getting married-- I can't imagine making the poor guy pay for all those dinners! Besides, there were many occasions where I wanted to treat him or take him out.
Back in my dating days, I definitely expected the guy to pay for the first date, but I always offered to split it. I definitely thought less of the few guys who took me up on it.
What a great discussion!!! When you really laid it out like that I realized that it was so long ago that I dated that I can't really remember how I felt. My instinct is to say that I was always fine going dutch, but to be honest I just don't remember what we used to do. I feel like we did switch off paying for dates, because we were in college and living off of our parents' money in the beginning (at least for the first couple years until I got a few jobs)... and it's probably not nice for one party to spend all of their parents' money on dates :)
I think I'm with Stephanie on this one---I would probably offer to go splitsies on the first 3 dates or so, but would expect him to say no and pay. :) And then much like you, after 3 or so dates, switching off who pays occasionally would be totally fine to me.
Ugh, I hate The Rules! In my dating days, I typically expected the guy to pay for the first few dates, then we would alternate after that. For the most part it would depend on how our salaries skewed: guy who had money falling out of his pockets paid for everything, guys who made same as me alternated 50/50, etc.
I completely agree with you! I always let the guy pay at first, but then I wanted to chip in after a month or two. It's a good way to assert your independence early in a relationship, and remind a guy that while you like spending time with them and going on dates, you don't really NEED them.
I paid for dinner on the first date with Husband because the bill came while he was in the bathroom. Even though I normally would have expected him to pay as the "normal" thing, it felt too uncomfortable to just leave the bill sitting on the table and point it out to him when he got back. Guess there's a big difference between the "normal" thing and demanding that the boy pay!
But overall, while I definitely covered the check on occasion (he paid for dinner, I got the movie tickets; or I picked up one dinner bill a week, or whatever), I had the same theory as your friend. It's EXPENSIVE for a woman to keep her appearance to the expected dating standards, so I figure that's the female's end of the financial bargain. Dinner checks are the male's end. Plus, of course, I'm not above a double standard of expecting to be treated as an equal but still enjoying being taken care of....
I agree with you--he should spring for the first few dates (and maybe even the first several months?). It's courtship and wooing, and old-fashioned or not, it answers the question: "can you take care of me?" Just because I can take care of myself doesn't mean that I don't want someone capable of taking care of me. After a while my (now) husband and I started switching off paying for dinner, or movies, or ice cream, or whatever. And even though we have completely joined finances now, I still say thank you when he's the one that pulls out the debit card. Is that weird?
We sort-of split it. He paid for the first date or two, and then I asked him out with me, and I paid for that one. His reasoning for the first (since I inquired about paying my half) was, "I asked you out, I'll pay for it." After that, we went with that model until he moved to another state, and then the weekends together generally evened themselves out.
Now, we're at "whoever has got a job gets to pay!" And married. It's not a big deal.
I'm so glad I'm not doing this anymore. :) But when I was dating, I would always offer to pay (or at least pay my share). If he let me on a first date, he'd have to be pretty amazing to get a second date (anyway, that never happened--I don't think anyone ever let me pay on a first date). I never really tended to pay for much until we were exclusive (and even then, it'd usually be something like dessert if he took me out to dinner for awhile).
Although I consider myself to be a feminist and pretty independent, I also am a bit old-fashioned. I don't see these as entirely mutually exclusive, but probably a lot of people do. What I'm getting at is I've never had any angst about wanting a man who was willing to work to court me. ;)
This reminds me of a recent episode of "How I Met Your Mother" when Ted ends up on a blind date with a girl (the same exact date) that he had been on a date with a few years prior. They were trying to figure out why they never went on a second date, and one of the reasons Ted didn't like her was that she didn't do the whole "check song and dance" so that he could feel like a man by paying for the meal.
When I was dating, I would always "offer" to pay, but gosh...I always expected the guy to deny me on that gesture. Call me old fashioned I guess! And come to think of it, Justin has always paid for me...throughout dating and even now in our marriage. I guess it evens out though - I do the grocery shopping, he pays for dinners out...
For me this isn't a deal breaker. I actually think its one of the less significant ways that a potential partner can show that they are trying to impress me or invested in a potential relationship.
Anyone can throw down a piece of plastic when the waiter slips the bill onto the table. For me, knowing someone is interested/invested is often expressed in more subtle ways. It may be something as simple as suggesting that we go to a specific restaurant that they remember me saying I wanted to try or remembering I like a certain type of food, neighborhood, etc. To me this shows that this person is interested in me and not just following a dating script by rote.
On my first date with my hubby he paid for dinner, then we walked to another locale for dessert. I swooped in and paid for that before he could.
Oh, this is a good one. I feel it's the gesture that counts. I am like you in that when a man pays for dinner, it demonstrates some level of commitment or respect. When I was dating, I didn't *let* my dates pay all the time...I just felt badly. HOWEVER, if he didn't bother to gesture, then that made me (I say this with some hesitation) think less of him.
Having said that, I did date a young professor for about seven months. He didn't have much money (or a clue) and we always ate at cheap places (which was fine with me), but we went Dutch a lot of times. I think that's even worse! I'd rather pay the whole bill! What I didn't get was that he spent a lot of money on scented candles and hair gel (maybe he's like your friend who thought he had already spent enough money?), but used paper towels as toilet tissue because he would forget to buy it (but there was plenty of hair gel and pineapple lotion). Okay, I digress!!! Seven months was six and a half too long! I really digress.
The point is, I'm somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to the paying situation, and I very much agree with you.